KIDS BY AND FOR

How can we connect to children in new ways and what can we learn from them? We spoke to a group of RASL minor students who are working with such questions by exploring rituals, dreams and the imagination. In this interview, they talk about collaborating transdisciplinarily, their project and future perspectives.

Group members:

ANA KAPPELHOF: EUC, Humanities
BONNIE GIESEN: EUC, Political Science
CELESTE ENGEL: Codarts, Classical music, violin
EMMIE STIJNEN: Codarts, Jazz vocals
INDIA LUCESCOLI LABELLE: EUC, International Relations and Political Science
JESSIE HENDRIKS: EUC, Cultural Analysis 
JULIA GAT: WdKA, Photography

Can you talk a bit about your project and how you came together as a group?

JESSIE: The second day of the minor, we had a team development day where everyone did speed dating. We all wanted to work with children so our group was formed around that theme. I think how we first started to learn and engage with this topic was by putting ourselves in the shoes of children again. So, we tried to incorporate rituals from our own childhoods as well as those of other people.
JULIA: Yeah, so that was the first stage, and from there we tried to develop a bit more background on the topic and went into a reading week where we searched for different texts, essays, videos and podcasts on the topic. And now we're in the active phase of the process where we're actually trying to connect with children and interact with them. We came up with this plan of having meetings with children through Skype or Zoom in which we would try to understand how we can connect with them in new ways and what that can inspire in our way of working.

How do you experience working together with students from Willem de Kooning (WdKA), Codarts and Erasmus University College (EUC) so far? 

ANA: I think it's really interesting because all of our institutions
have different ways of working on projects. At EUC, for instance, projects are quite result-oriented. But in the minor, that isn’t at all the case. Actually, one of the main things that we're learning is how to work together.
CELESTE: You really see differences in thinking, in approaching a
problem. As a Codarts music student, I am used to approaching topics artistically, whereas some people in our group are used to academic projects. We all have our own strengths and struggle with different things. We can learn so much from each other! Sometimes my mind is blown when I get a totally new insight, and that is really cool.
JULIA: I think there's something about coming from different schools, we all have this motivation to get to know new people and find new ways of working. We really bring together so much positive energy and that makes this project extremely inspiring. 

What are the specific things that you struggle with individually or as a group? And how do you negotiate that in your group?

EMMIE: Sometimes we are jumping from one thing to another. We also meet up with different tutors and they all have different opinions and insights about the project. But now we're trying to make it clearer for ourselves so that we know what we want to do. INDIA: I wouldn't say it's a struggle, but I do think that you need to commit to the extra work. You're combining different ways of learning into different ways of putting knowledge into practice, and that's going to take some time and effort. But we're here for a reason, and we're glad to do the work.

JESSIE, as an EUC student, how is this form of collaborating different from what you do in your own study? 

JESSIE: At EUC, I feel like when you're collaborating, you just meet up and create a task-division of who does what. But you're not talking to each other every two days to discuss what everyone is doing. In the minor, we are not working towards a particular end goal and have much more time to explore and to get to know each other in a fluid way. This opens up a lot of things and allows you to develop as a person. And I think that’s something that’s really cool about this project, that you feel you're also developing personally from it and not only doing it for school. 

ANA and INDIA, do you share this feeling that because of this more intense form of collaboration, there's also more space for personal development?

ANA: Yeah, for sure! At EUC, during a project you usually don’t think about your personal development, you just go ahead and do it. And I think that in the minor, because you have more time, you also think about what your role is in the collaboration, what you’re adding, and also what you're not adding to the group.
INDIA: I would very much agree and I would also add that it's a lot
about emotional connection. For me at least, I feel very emotionally connected to my group mates. I think that we're very open to sharing what's going on in our lives, if we just need
a day off or if we want to really emotionally connect with the material we’re working on.

CELESTE, EMMIE and JULIA, since you are from Codarts and WdKA, how would you say this learning experience adds to your artistic practice?

CELESTE: Learning about new insights and just thinking about things in a different way helps you grow and this is a very valuable experience for an artist. I play the violin and now, because of what I experienced through the minor, I might play a piece differently or see the piece in a new light. I actually notice that and think that's very cool.
EMMIE: For me, it's a bit of the same. I also really liked the thematic sessions, they made me think about certain subjects in a different way. And I really like to learn new things and then incorporate them in writing, for instance. I think that’s nice.
JULIA: For me, the main thing is that the minor really helped me break away from this artistic bubble that I'm usually in. In my school, where everyone thinks alike, it’s almost hard to understand what you are actually doing because everybody is doing the same thing. In the minor, I’m the only one thinking in this specific way so I can reflect on how I function and understand how people see things differently. I also feel that this minor is very judgment-free. Both through the teachers and the other students, a safe space has been created in which it is okay to do things the way you want to do them. Everyone is very understanding of each other and that's definitely something that I've missed sometimes in the rest of my education.
CELESTE: I agree! Usually, I'm not much of a talker, but here I feel so safe and everyone really listens to each other. It feels so good to be in this group where I can really contribute and say what I want to say. And I really appreciate everyone.  

Do you find it challenging to work on a project in which there is no end goal?

ANA: I would say this has been the main struggle for all of us. I think iwas something that everyone had to get used to. It's difficult to create a framework if you don't really have an end product, it feels a bit floaty and abstract. But it's also nice because our tutors keep saying that is the way it's supposed to be.
INDIA: Yeah, but personally, I actually really enjoy that feeling. For me,the floaty stage is a really nice, because you can still adjust things and if you find that something isn’t working, it's easy to correct. The idea that what we are going to do can change constantly, both in form and content, I really enjoy that. 

Looking to the future, would you say this minor will influence what you're going to do after graduation?

EMMIE: I know that as an artist, I can be really inside my head sometimes, and I think this is also a good practice to not do that and to trust myself more. That's the thing I learned from this minor, and I think I will take that into the future as a reminder for myself. ANA: And also, it's interesting how this minor allows you to deal with social issues in a concrete way. At EUC we learn a lot about what's happening in the world from a theoretical point of view. The minor is quite inspiring if you want to engage practically with social issues.
JULIA: Yeah, I think that's a fair point, this minor is very practical in the sense that it offers a glimpse of what life will be like after graduation. As an artist, you often work on projects without an end goal, and you just have to figure things out yourself. So, in that sense, the minor is actually preparing you for the real world.